Dealing with Creationists

[gothwalk]

Later this year, I'm going to be coming into occasional, unavoidable contact with an actual practicing Creationist. I'd like not to conflict with this person any more than I have to - no conflict at all would be good. Obviously, avoiding notions like evolution and environmentalism would be smart - are there any other topics arising from a literal interpretation of the Bible that I should watch out for?

This probably sounds like some kind of passive-aggressive thing, but I've genuninely no experience in thinking of the Bible as a literal work, and I don't understand the mindset behind it.

Comments

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Don't show him your fossil collection :)

[bastun-ie.livejournal.com]

And no shellfish or pork on the bbq?

[holzman.livejournal.com]

I doubt many creationists keep Kosher.

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

So what's the justification for taking one part of the Bible literally, and not another? Or is there a commonly-held set of Creationist beliefs, which are a subset of Biblical statements?

Actually, I'm not all that sure I want to know.

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

I'm on the verge of asking "How DO Creationists explain fossils?", but I hesitate.

[bastun-ie.livejournal.com]

Actually no, it's a good point. The Old Testament (including Exodus, Leviticus and the other bits handing down the law) applied to the Jews, but in the New Testament, Jesus and/or Peter says that Gentiles can follow God too. Or something. So creation happened, man was given laws, Jesus came, those laws no longer apply to everyone. Except the ten commandments, which still do. Or something.

I'll stop talking now and leave this to people far more qualified than I. I'll just be over here, roleplaying...

[holzman.livejournal.com]

There's some arbitrary (as far as I can tell) split between commandment or history that are forever and "the law" which is "fulfilled by Jesus." (Whatever that means.)

[goblin-ballista.livejournal.com]

I have to admit I liked how the West Wing covered the issue in the "Midterms" episode

http://westwing.bewarne.com/second/25admonitions.html
Admittedly they took that from the original Dr Laura letter which did the rounds about 6 or 7 years ago.

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/%7Esusan/joke/laura.htm

[dangerdean.livejournal.com]

You hesitated too late.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

God bought them at a cosmic joke shop, of course.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

That sounds sensible, but it doesn't explain why Christian fundamentalists use chunks of Leviticus that aren't in the 10 Commandments to back up claims that, eg, homosexuality is wrong. I'd love to know the reasoning behind that, when they don't demand that all toilets should be 200 feet from the house or that all sofas sat on by menstruating women should be burnt.

[silja.livejournal.com]

I am a creantionist :*)
I believe that G_d created everything, and that includes the dinosaurs. The bible can be interpreted in many, many ways. My belief, supported by many rabbis and based on Genesis, is that it is approximately 18 billion years old. As far as I know, when Jesus came along, he threw out 603 of the Jewish commandements, the “laws of life”, dealing with such things as what to eat, when not to have sex etc, and only kept the 10 comandements given to Moses, the “moral laws”.

Aaaaanyway- on to your question! A lot will depend on what type of creationist this person is- if they just happened to have that belief, but are not of the fundie/ converting type, then you should be safe as long as you stay away from discussion on evolution, endangered animals, DNA, abortion, the development of fetuses and such like.

[vidicon.livejournal.com]

Given that Creationism isn't founded on anything more rational than the belief in the factual authority of some choice sets of passages while totally ignoring others, further based on the authority of other people who may or may not have had their best interests at heart when they told them which passages to pay attention to and which to ignore, any particular subject could be a nest of vipers.

I say just wear heavy boots and walk where you feel you ought to walk. Vipers serve a useful ecological purpose, to try to be kind and respectful while in their territory, but other than that, you pretty much have nothing to fear if you don't let the fangs get to you.

[*]

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

You may be a creationist, but you're not a Creationist :).

I have no problem with the idea that any entity created (or set in motion) the universe, or even guides it. It's the "It was 5 days, 4000 years ago, and nothing has changed since except for the animals that weren't in the Ark dying off" crowd that are giving me mental trouble.

What's the problem with DNA?

[silja.livejournal.com]

“ It was 5 days, 4000 years ago, and nothing has changed since”
Yeah never quite got that either… doesn’t say that anywhere in the bible.

“What's the problem with DNA?”
It depends :*) Some Creationists see it as a wonder of G_d, proof that only He could have made humans, as nature couldn’t have come up with this complicated a structure her/him/itself. With others, if you get into the discussion of GM and how it is decided whether a child is male or female and all that….. best stay away from it …

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

Can you not just try your best to avoid talking about biblical things altogether? Or is it so impossible with those people?

Personally if I know I won't be able to have a reasonable conversation with a blockhead, I just don't have that conversation to start with.

Bible = First Fantasy novel ever written

Also why do you feel that you should adapt to them? Why can s/he adapt to you as well?

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

Essentially, I will have to deal with this person occasionally. The Creationism thing came up in a disucssion about environmentalism. I'll be avoiding as many conversations as possible.

It's not really a matter of adapting, it's just minimising the conflict for the sake of other people around. I hope they'll be doing the same.

[trouvera.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I have heard people state that fossils exist as a test of faith. Personally I find that people who say such things tend to exist as a test of my patience.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

That's because they're searching for anything to back up their prejudices and Leviticus is about all they can find.
Well, that's my prejudice opinion, anyway.

Daegaer wrote some stuff about it ages ago: http://www.livejournal.com/users/daegaer/90014.html

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

There is actually an internal logic they use to justify what parts of the texts they throw out - picked it up from reading up on websites one of my friends from the GLBTA group at college posted...

Basically, they argue, in Leviticus, certain things are unclean for the Jewish People, but things named abomination are punished by the Lord in all nations - and that's how a man lying with a man as with a woman is describe in Leviticus 18:22. So while it's not in the Big 10 Rules that even Gentiles have to obey, there is a reading by which one can claim that, since the Lord punished Egypt, eg, for them, He will also punish any goy for it. Basically, they define a set of things (incest, bestiality, sodomy) that appear together in the text as a "moral law" as opposed to the rules of "ceremonial law" that Jews are enjoined to obey.

Personally, I think it's rather silly, and I feel a lot more comfortable with an interpretive, as opposed to literal, reading anyway. I figure, hell, if I told a coworker of mine how a computer worked and asked them to write it down, I can't imagine they'd be dead on - and I can't help but feel that if the Lord attempted to reveal the workings of the Universe to a human, it would end up somewhat garbled on paper, and a little tinged by their perceptions. But that's just me.