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I dreamt last night of explaining to a group of people my thoughts on game balance between player characters. This isn't too uncommon, I often dream of games, both from a point of view in Davon and from a point of view of DM level discussion. This one, however, had several of the mental indicators that I have set to say "this is significant to someone" - although the indicator of who it is was missing. So here's an explanation of how I view game balance, hidden away behind a cut tag for those not interested.
There are, at present, five characters being played in Age of Legends. Urda, Storm, Ken, Perezar, and Emma. Of these, Urda and Ken are far and away the most powerful, followed by Perezar, Emma and Storm in about that order. Urda is a queen, and the high priest proxy of an overgod, talks to him at will, can become a gold dragon, teleports without error at will, and regenerates at an insane speed. Ken has that same regeneration, can heal with a glance, talks to his god on a regular basis, can shift between the astral and etheral and prime at will as long as he's wearing his armour, and has the (pretty much unexplored) powers of the Fool, the second most powerful male fey in the Seelie Court. Perezar can slay a god with a touch, has a paladin order under her command, has memories of about five hundred thousand years - or more - of life on Davon, and is on talking terms with the Dancer (the equivalent of the Fool in the Unseelie Court). Emma can shoot fire from her forehead, and is apparently one of very few people who can see a certain dangerous species. Storm has no special powers.
Now, this game is horribly unbalanced, yes? Urda and Ken solve every problem without blinking and the others are left on the sidelines?
No.
For a start, Urda and Ken have earned their powers in four years of "real"-world playing and about five years of game time. They started as second level characters, and built all the way up. Secondly, all of their powers are countered by responsibilities. Urda cna turn into a dragon, sure, but should there be a threat to the sphere, then she is honour bound to be in the front line against that danger. She's a queen, which means that she has to pay attention to every small detail that happens, everywhere, and keep things balanced (The other players don't see much of this balancing act - most of it happens in downtime). She has to do whatever is necessary for the overgod, and she's the main point of contact between him and the world. She teleports without error at will - and needs to; if she couldn't, the world would have been destroyed long ago. And her regeneration was a reward for saving the life of a god. Likewise for Ken, every power is balanced by a responsibility. Perezar actually has a few freebies, since she entered the game rather late. Emma has to keep her forehead covered with clay or porcelain, or she'll burn everything she looks at. And Storm is actually operating at a minus, since he's missing chunks of his memories.
Second, the PCs are often seperated, and the challenges thrown at each are graded as precisely as I can to the ability of the character and the likes of the player. Perezar gets more combat. Urda gets puzzles and problems that depend on reasoning, not on her powers. Ken gets interesting stuff. Storm gets darker plotlines. And Emma gets things around politics, revenge, and secrecy. I consider that if the game's going forward or not depends on the numbers on the sheet, then I've failed - the game's going forward should depend on characters, their actions, and the internal logic of the world. Urda's most notable feats - saving the life of a god, and selling the (untouchable by any non-celestially-good creature) moon to a Pit Fiend, could both have been done by a first level commoner - because they were just words.
I'll be happier when all the characters are balanced in the numbers too - but for the minute, that doesn't matter. Any character can go about doing anything, and I'll work the whole game around that. If Emma decides to go off and hunt for the remaining descendants of Orn and leave Ubar in charge of the embassy, I'll roll with that, and if Storm decides to convert to the worship of Pherill, I'll manage that too.
So: Game balance works, principally, by effectively removing the numbers and powers from the equation, and leaving the story, the immersion, and the thinking.
(On a side-note, someone was muttering in the dream about Urda being the most powerful character because she's played by my wife. Then, and now, I take a deep breath before answering this: No. Urda is the mosr powerful character because her player dedicates more time to the game than anyone else - possibly including myself - and because she has shouldered responsibilities that other characters, past PCs and NPCs alike, have let fall. As other characters pick up responsibilities, say "I think this needs doing, I'm going to do it, here's how", and as their players dedicate time to the game - maps, diaries, discussions with NPCs, enquiries about theology, and so on, those characters will also gain the powers to balance the responsibilities.)
Now, could whoever that was for identify themselves, please?
There are, at present, five characters being played in Age of Legends. Urda, Storm, Ken, Perezar, and Emma. Of these, Urda and Ken are far and away the most powerful, followed by Perezar, Emma and Storm in about that order. Urda is a queen, and the high priest proxy of an overgod, talks to him at will, can become a gold dragon, teleports without error at will, and regenerates at an insane speed. Ken has that same regeneration, can heal with a glance, talks to his god on a regular basis, can shift between the astral and etheral and prime at will as long as he's wearing his armour, and has the (pretty much unexplored) powers of the Fool, the second most powerful male fey in the Seelie Court. Perezar can slay a god with a touch, has a paladin order under her command, has memories of about five hundred thousand years - or more - of life on Davon, and is on talking terms with the Dancer (the equivalent of the Fool in the Unseelie Court). Emma can shoot fire from her forehead, and is apparently one of very few people who can see a certain dangerous species. Storm has no special powers.
Now, this game is horribly unbalanced, yes? Urda and Ken solve every problem without blinking and the others are left on the sidelines?
No.
For a start, Urda and Ken have earned their powers in four years of "real"-world playing and about five years of game time. They started as second level characters, and built all the way up. Secondly, all of their powers are countered by responsibilities. Urda cna turn into a dragon, sure, but should there be a threat to the sphere, then she is honour bound to be in the front line against that danger. She's a queen, which means that she has to pay attention to every small detail that happens, everywhere, and keep things balanced (The other players don't see much of this balancing act - most of it happens in downtime). She has to do whatever is necessary for the overgod, and she's the main point of contact between him and the world. She teleports without error at will - and needs to; if she couldn't, the world would have been destroyed long ago. And her regeneration was a reward for saving the life of a god. Likewise for Ken, every power is balanced by a responsibility. Perezar actually has a few freebies, since she entered the game rather late. Emma has to keep her forehead covered with clay or porcelain, or she'll burn everything she looks at. And Storm is actually operating at a minus, since he's missing chunks of his memories.
Second, the PCs are often seperated, and the challenges thrown at each are graded as precisely as I can to the ability of the character and the likes of the player. Perezar gets more combat. Urda gets puzzles and problems that depend on reasoning, not on her powers. Ken gets interesting stuff. Storm gets darker plotlines. And Emma gets things around politics, revenge, and secrecy. I consider that if the game's going forward or not depends on the numbers on the sheet, then I've failed - the game's going forward should depend on characters, their actions, and the internal logic of the world. Urda's most notable feats - saving the life of a god, and selling the (untouchable by any non-celestially-good creature) moon to a Pit Fiend, could both have been done by a first level commoner - because they were just words.
I'll be happier when all the characters are balanced in the numbers too - but for the minute, that doesn't matter. Any character can go about doing anything, and I'll work the whole game around that. If Emma decides to go off and hunt for the remaining descendants of Orn and leave Ubar in charge of the embassy, I'll roll with that, and if Storm decides to convert to the worship of Pherill, I'll manage that too.
So: Game balance works, principally, by effectively removing the numbers and powers from the equation, and leaving the story, the immersion, and the thinking.
(On a side-note, someone was muttering in the dream about Urda being the most powerful character because she's played by my wife. Then, and now, I take a deep breath before answering this: No. Urda is the mosr powerful character because her player dedicates more time to the game than anyone else - possibly including myself - and because she has shouldered responsibilities that other characters, past PCs and NPCs alike, have let fall. As other characters pick up responsibilities, say "I think this needs doing, I'm going to do it, here's how", and as their players dedicate time to the game - maps, diaries, discussions with NPCs, enquiries about theology, and so on, those characters will also gain the powers to balance the responsibilities.)
Now, could whoever that was for identify themselves, please?
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From:
Re: *raises hand*
From:
Re: *raises hand*
(The drawback of the "story the DM wants to tell" approach became very clear in the end of Spellbound; the story was "written" for Urda, Ken and Darya, and Perezar was supposed to be an NPC at that stage. This obviously wasn't the case, but neither could I rearrange everything in the last few months. I'm not getting into a story trap again.)
From:
Treading into the quagmire
It's not personal, because she is your wife - anyone else living with you and spending as much time with you (and sharing a house still isn't the same as sharing a house *and* a relationship) with the same inclination would get as far, I am 100% sure - but it makes a difference. And I have seen it before, with friends in Galway, where the girlfriend/boyfriend of the GM is at an advantage, even though the GM is not consciously giving them more.
Just a point, that's all. No battle here.
From:
Re: Treading into the quagmire
Some of this is as simple as a question like "What did Urda get for her birthday?" - and I write a list of what she got from various people, which can kick off three or four dozen different ideas in my head, which feed back in... and so on. Or asking questions like "What's Ralhi Muradi culture like?". Or "Did the drow have their gods before the Remaking?" (Actually, that was
Ye see what I mean?
From:
oh dear gods
I now think i should have prehaps chosen mental rabbit...
Nibbles till Friday
Ar
From:
Re: oh dear gods
From:
urgh
Ar
From: (Anonymous)
no subject
All three elements are present in any game. The simplest games - let's take your classic D&D dungeon crawl, say - are almost purely based on Effectiveness. Influence is at a minumum, because we have no metagame and the course of play is fairly unchanging (down the hole, kill the monster. Down the hole, kill the monster). Spotlight time here is more important - fighters get spotlight time in combat, rogues get it when setting/finding traps and stealing stuff. Mages can seize the spotlight with a flashy spell. (This is why "combat medics" suck in such games - their "spotlight time" is so boring).
Once we move past the simple game, though, the question becomes more complex. In my old L5R campaign, one of the characters ended up becoming an Oracle - a demigoddess. She had nearly infinite Effectiveness. However, the main focus of the game was on the fortunes and fate of one unit in the Scorpion army, and she had relatively little Influence over this. Although the character was completely unbalanced in terms of Effectiveness, the campaign was balanced because her Influence was limited.
In your situation, you do seem to be in danger of wobbling slightly. Urda and Ken are more effective than the other characters, that's a given. Spotlight time...you mention that the PCs are often separated and given tailored challenges, so Spotlight time should be almost exactly even for every player. Influence...hmm. Some of the players do seem to have greater Influence over the campaign than others, through political/religious ties and through metagame/out of game stuff (if a player gets the GM thinking about, say, the history of dragons, and the story moves towards exploring the history of dragons, then that player is influencing the campaign.)
So, my questions would be:
1) do the apparently marginalised characters have enough influence to give them equal ownership of the game?
2) is game balance even an issue? If all the players are having fun, then it's not. You can have totally unbalanced games in terms as long as the apparently disadvantaged players are happy. I recall playing a Companion in an Ars Magica campaign. The mages outclassed me in effectiveness, I had no influence, and the spotlight time was on the group as a whole, so my lack of effectiveness meant I got very little light. Still, I enjoyed playing the character's personality so much I didn't care.
Christ, that was a lot longer than I expected it would be.
Gar
From:
no subject
I don't think you can measure Influence easily, and even when you can measure it, it's not so meaningful. Some players don't enjoy having those effects. I've dealt with one player who just lost interest in the game completely once the character got to a position of power.
I think the metric I should be working on is Fun - are the players enjoying the game equually, or rather, am I giving each player a fair chance to enjoy the game?