Yeah, jealous that I never created a system that every illiterate tool and his dog is releasing overpriced expansions for :)
Anyway, I should clarify that I don't think it's inherently flawed - as a D&D system it is perfectly fine but it IS flawed outside of te fantasy realm - or high fantasy to be precise. I don't think the lack of wound penalties does it any favours for giving a game a good "gritty" feel for example. To me, the "feel" of a game is as much about system as it is background, I know you don't know World of Darkness stuff so well, but can you see a game like vampire working under D20 with all the conscience/angst/road/discipline stuff?
Y'all keep missing the point that d20 is modular. d20 is a single mechanic - roll a d20, add a numnber or numbers from your character sheet, compare it to one the game master has. That's it. Everything else is optional, and can be removed, added on, etc. There are certain other core elements - the six attributes, classes and levels. They're useful. But they're not essential. And if I get in and understand the White Wolf bucket-o-dice thing, I can work out the probabilities in it, and convert that to d20. And I can convert all the other bits and pieces, and produce the same game, except d20-based. They don't have to be forced into the levels, clases and hit points thing.
And you're still completely ignoring d20 Modern and Star Wars, both of which are very fine non-high-fantasy d20 games - not to mention Mutants and Masterminds.
You can add wound penalties very easily. When you lose half your hit points, reduce all rolls by 2. When you're down to a quarter, reduce by 4. There. Done.
To extend the MS analogy a bit more, sure you can remove the classes and levels in the same way you can get rid of IE out of Windows, but you'll be bloody lucky if the thing works afterwards.
If you get rid of levels, classes, and hitpoints and add in wound penalties then you're not playing D20 any more, you're playing using a system that utilises a 20 sided dice and while I'm not familiar with the license in the current incarnation it seems sort of silly to take the concept of rolling high on a 20 sided dice and turn it into a system.
And starwars is SO high fantasy - they use magic swords, use magic powers and one dude shoots lightning from his fingers! I'm not familiar with mutants and masterminds but I'm going to take a wild guess at there being beams, rays, balls and batterings involved - which in my book is high fantasy.
If you get rid of levels, classes, and hitpoints and add in wound penalties then you're not playing D20 any more, you're playing using a system that utilises a 20 sided dice and while I'm not familiar with the license in the current incarnation it seems sort of silly to take the concept of rolling high on a 20 sided dice and turn it into a system.
It's not just rolling high. It's roll high, add numbers, compare. And that does make a system - not a sophisticated one, but a system nonetheless.
What I'm saying comes down to this: The system doesn't matter. It's just a way of getting random numbers under a given statistical bias, and comparing them with other numbers. It's handy and easy to remember one method. It can be a d12, where you divide by three and add 14, and compare it to your Chutzpah score, if you like. And in the same system you can have the d54 roll, if you like, and percentile tables, and coin-flipping, and it's still just manipulation of probability. I can take any set of numbers you want, any subsystem, from any game, and convert it to the d20 mechanism, and it will work, and it will give exactly the same probability of success or failure as the orginal, to within 2.5% as a maximum error (Half of 1-in-20).
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Anyway, I should clarify that I don't think it's inherently flawed - as a D&D system it is perfectly fine but it IS flawed outside of te fantasy realm - or high fantasy to be precise. I don't think the lack of wound penalties does it any favours for giving a game a good "gritty" feel for example.
To me, the "feel" of a game is as much about system as it is background, I know you don't know World of Darkness stuff so well, but can you see a game like vampire working under D20 with all the conscience/angst/road/discipline stuff?
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And you're still completely ignoring d20 Modern and Star Wars, both of which are very fine non-high-fantasy d20 games - not to mention Mutants and Masterminds.
You can add wound penalties very easily. When you lose half your hit points, reduce all rolls by 2. When you're down to a quarter, reduce by 4. There. Done.
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If you get rid of levels, classes, and hitpoints and add in wound penalties then you're not playing D20 any more, you're playing using a system that utilises a 20 sided dice and while I'm not familiar with the license in the current incarnation it seems sort of silly to take the concept of rolling high on a 20 sided dice and turn it into a system.
And starwars is SO high fantasy - they use magic swords, use magic powers and one dude shoots lightning from his fingers! I'm not familiar with mutants and masterminds but I'm going to take a wild guess at there being beams, rays, balls and batterings involved - which in my book is high fantasy.
From:
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It's not just rolling high. It's roll high, add numbers, compare. And that does make a system - not a sophisticated one, but a system nonetheless.
What I'm saying comes down to this: The system doesn't matter. It's just a way of getting random numbers under a given statistical bias, and comparing them with other numbers. It's handy and easy to remember one method. It can be a d12, where you divide by three and add 14, and compare it to your Chutzpah score, if you like. And in the same system you can have the d54 roll, if you like, and percentile tables, and coin-flipping, and it's still just manipulation of probability. I can take any set of numbers you want, any subsystem, from any game, and convert it to the d20 mechanism, and it will work, and it will give exactly the same probability of success or failure as the orginal, to within 2.5% as a maximum error (Half of 1-in-20).