Men Behaving Well

[gothwalk]

And then there are the thoughts that arise out of having time to think. Something I have been intending to do for about a year now is to set up a community for men. Not men-only, in the sense of theladiesloos being women-only, but a community intended to discuss masculinity.

I was talking about this in the pub with a few folk before Christmas, and the word "language" came up. There is an established, even an academic language in which to discuss femininity. Concepts like "empowerment", "validation", and the like have definitions and meaning, and are the building blocks of larger concepts. There isn't really any such thing for masculinity - all anyone can draw on is the language coming from thinking about relationship, like the "cave time" I mentioned earlier. But there should be ways of discussing masculinity outside of relationships.

Some - although I don't expect anyone reading this to be among them, really - might question why this would be necessary. The answer to that is that there is something observably wrong with men in the modern era. Last Christmas, I saw a guy kick a crying girl. He evidently thought that this wasn't anything unusual, and was rather taken aback that anyone would actually challenge him on it. I've seen other behaviour before and since, and heard of some quite recently, that makes me think there is something wrong.

That something wrong seems to be that there are no longer any role models for men. The "strong male figures" of our time are footballers, politicans, and actors - none of whose behaviour is exactly exemplary. And the more badly they behave, the more media coverage they get. It's no wonder that there are guys out there of my age who are assholes, because they've never seen men behave in any other way.

So I want to create a community in which this can be discussed, in which the idea of role models, of codes of behavior, of just not being an asshole, can be discussed, and hopefully in which terminology can be developed to talk about these things in a more meaningful way. I'm sure some of this has been done already - I can't be the only one to have noticed this - and putting that material where people can see it will also be good.

So, if these topics interest you, head along to decentblokes.

Comments

[d2leddy.livejournal.com]

Sounds interesting. Have you been reading Robert Bly?

isn't really any such thing for masculinity

I'm not convinced of this, but it does sound like a great idea. Though the idea of me drawing on a role model makes my skin crawl. Which is really an idiosyncratic statement so I'll shut up now.

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

Sounds interesting. Have you been reading Robert Bly?

I haven't, but I'll look him up and see what he does.

the idea of me drawing on a role model makes my skin crawl

You're all growed up now, and you're supposed to be able to do without them at this stage. :)

[d2leddy.livejournal.com]

OKaym at 5 years old people were complaining about lack of male role models. I remember my skin crawling.

[sshi.livejournal.com]

heh, you should really talk to my friend Mark, who is rather interested in a whole load of the same issues (funnily enough, he lives in Helsinki, these days). I've had some interesting conversations with him on the subject of finding masculine role models that aren't hyper-testosterone-driven, especially where the general media portrayal seems to be masculine=asshole and any behaviour not 'hard' is seen as 'femininising' (which is utter tosh, if you ask me, but there you go).

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

Can you give me contact details? :)

[sshi.livejournal.com]

he has an article on this website (http://ejournal.ashst.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=2), although you need to sign up for a log-in to read it (and I'm now trying to remember my username, erk). Third one down.

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

One of my friends (a woman) ended up doing her dissertation on concepts of masculinity and gentlemanliness in the Victorian novel precisely because she was shocked how very little was written on men, per se.

[mr-flay.livejournal.com]

Good for you, sir! I shall hie me to this community forthwith. The problem with male role models, of course, is that they are either unsavoury expounders of a machismo construct (footballers, politicians, rock stars, etc), or just Role Models, with no specificity attached to their gender - Nelson Mandela, for example. It may be something to do with the fact that while women have had the male prevalence within society to rail against and thus become Female Role Models (Germaine Greer, Margaret Thatcher, etc), men, being part of the dominant gender, have no gender-specific problems to tackle and thus become useful Male Role Models. Indeed, it could be taken as an indication of the continuing male prevalence in society that they are still seen as Female Role Models, and not just Role Models. But now I'm waffling.

I'll mention them on the community, but I should just like to mention two that occurred to me on reading your post: Oliver Postgate, the creator of Bagpuss and The Clangers, and David Niven, an actor continually invited to parties because of his ability to be charming and disarming to everyone, regardless of how insufferably boring they might be.

I'm glad, by the way, that you challenged the thug who kicked the girl. Good on you.

[phantom_wolfboy]

Mmm. I personally don't see the point to talking about masculinity. It baffles me. Not masculinity per se; the talking about it.