Random

[gothwalk]

Where does Engrish come from? The Japanese are so precise about everything else, and yet there's this imprecise (albeit evocative) stream of non-English coming from Japan.

For some reason, one of the top searches that keeps grounding out on dukestreet.org is "How to make a mechanical arm".

The Helsinki Museum of Modern Art has comics for sale. Why don't we get that in the Anglophone parts of the planet?

I like living in a time and place where I can discuss the pronunciation of haecceity, where to get episodes of Battlestar Galactica, and XSL selection, while listening to OPM's rather anthemic Heaven is a Halfpipe.

Comments

[arken-thell.livejournal.com]

It's because the two languages are compleatly alien to one another plus the Japanese have no vowels and everything is compleatly off.
Also the Engrish is written by people who aren't as percise ie lazy advertising execs and such.

Well at least that's my theory so I'm waiting to be disproved....so any second now.

[mytholder.livejournal.com]

Someone reading Green Mars?

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

Red Mars, as it happens. Nice shot.

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

the Japanese have no vowels

If you mean phonetically, which is where Engrish originates, yes they do, every other "letter" (if you write in Romaji) pretty much.

Otherwise, not only they have no vowels, but no consonents either since the written language uses a completely different writing scheme.

[arken-thell.livejournal.com]

Well true but the way Japanese is prononuced dosent leave much room for big O's in the words, so it's phonetic change in where the Engrish comes into it.

Ok I know what I'm trying to say but it's really not coming out the way i mean it to.....shutting up now.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

They do have vowels. Perhaps you're thinking of Czech? :-)

Because the writing systems has syllables rather than letters, just about every constanant must be followed by a vowel. But yeah, we have sounds they don't have, and they have sounds we don't have, so, as you say, everything is off.

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised you're questioning "Engrish" so easily.

You are learning some Finnish are you not? As such you should become aware of the differences both lexically and gramatically between English and another language. One language will have one word for concepts like "still", "yet", "already", another will have several words for "snow". Japanese is very much a contextual language. In a purely structural point of view, it can be very unprecise. So to render this unprecision into something comprehansible in its own context can be quite hard.

Also you probably know this but "Engrish" comes from the fact that "r" and "l" are one and the same in Japanese pronuncitation and so adapting their writing system to our Western one requires a thorough knowledge of vocabulary.

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

Yes I'm not sure what you mean by "big O's"

See my userpic here? It's pronounced "Ookami"...

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

I know the r/l difference, and I've heard of the peculiar practice of tongue-cutting due to a belief that Westerners have longer tongues, and can therefore pronounce the two sounds differently.

I've a grip on a good few languages, so I recognise lexical and grammatical differences. The transition from Irish to English results in many of the peculiarities of the Anglo-Irish use of English - the godawful formation "I do be going", instead of "I go" or even "I am going" is a fairly direct translation of the Irish equivalent.

But none of that accounts fully, in my mind, for a sentence like: "Canned beverage make you refresh" - it's constructs like these that are usually referred to as Engrish, alongside the sometimes wholly incomprehensible instructions you get with Japanese electronics.

[ex-agname.livejournal.com]

The difficulty also lies in perceiving sounds that exist in one language, but not another. It can take a long time to recognise and reproduce a sound from one language that doesn't exist in your own and even if you do manage it, it's not always easy to consistently reproduce that sound.

[arken-thell.livejournal.com]

Yes i understand but the shape is different when you pronounce it. Forget it! the languages are compleatly alien to one another so trying to relate them is usless and unless you can pronounce the words to one another (ie hearing how it's prnounced not that neither of us can't pronounce it ) then it's just far to difficult attempt to relate sound and picture.

I did have a point I'm sure

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Oh tell me about it. I've given up on a few sounds.

Actually, some people say you won't hear a sound correctly until you can pronounce it, rather than the other way around.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Perhaps she means that お has one sound - it can be longer, but is still basically the same, but there's many ways to pronounce the English 'o'. I don't know how to do phonetics, so the only one I can make a stab at spelling is "oh". Or I could use some of the words I've just used as examples - there's different Os in know, how, to, one, or.

But, actually, I think all that's irrelevant, as the problem with written Engrish is nothing to do with pronunciation. It's grammer and word choice. puritybrown may well have the answer.

And maybe English just looks cool and they don't care what it means - how many times have people used Chinese words here and not known what they mean or even if they're the right way round?

[mr-wombat.livejournal.com]

"I like living in a time and place where I can discuss the pronunciation of haecceity, where to get episodes of Battlestar Galactica, and XSL selection, while listening to OPM's rather anthemic Heaven is a Halfpipe."

I like living in a world that still has mad scientists.

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

I would tend to agree with you that they may think English "sound cool". The French often use an English word where there could be a perfectly adequate French word for the idea they're trying to convey (in French).

And not trying to brag, just experimenting...
know [nou]
how [ha&601;]
to [t&601;]
one [wan]
or [ôr]

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

okay that didn't quite work as I'd hoped :(

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

That answers my question most perfectly, thank you.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

The experiment is not a failure. You now know one more way that doesn't work :-)

[loupblanc.livejournal.com]

(from Basic Japanese Through Comics):

Sorry to ask but I have a book on learning Japanese through Manga and I was wondering if that's the same book. Mine's in French but it's the translation of I book that was first written, I think, in Portuguese (or Spanish). Unfortuantely, I don't have the name of the author of the top of my head. I will do when I get back home. I really like the book I have, it's the only one that talks about onomatopes. ^^

[greyisboring.livejournal.com]

All your base are belong to us.

Make your time.